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Sally Rogers has gone through multiple major career shifts in her professional life—from academia to banking, consulting, and, most recently, entrepreneurship. Through it all, she began to understand her own interests and motivations, and began to see building a career as an effort existing in tandem with self-exploration. Through this introspection, she ended up leaving behind the corporate world and creating her first startup company, finding herself happier and more unshackled than ever before. She’s learned the importance of following her dreams in her career, as well as the necessity of learning who she is outside of her professional life. Listen as Sally takes you from her darkest moments to the amazing place where she is today—the founder and CEO of Parsnip!
Everyone's career path is different, built by pivotal moments and choices. We're on a mission to amplify those stories and examine how our decisions shape our careers.
Nonlinear is hosted by Dave Fano, Founder & CEO of Teal—a genuinely consumer-first platform designed to help people grow and manage their careers. Our goal is to empower people to land jobs they love with free tools that guide and automate the process. Learn more at tealhq.com.
Sally Rogers - Career Paths Ep. 2
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Sally Rogers: [00:00:00] Stop doing what other people tell you to do? Like you're the only one in charge of your life. You're the only one in charge of your time. You're the only one that has that choice. Um, and I would just encourage people to really listen to their gut and do what they want to do.
David Fano: Alright, well, thanks for joining, uh, on this episode today, where with Sally. Uh, who, you know, in full transparency, the first time we've ever met, uh, you know, put out the call on Twitter for who would want to have a career conversation with me, Sally volunteered. And I just think every in Sally's words, everyone's got a story to tell.
So, uh, excited to hear about your career and then some of the shifts and turns you've made. But, uh, let's kick it off with you telling us a little bit about yourself. Sure.
Sally Rogers: Thanks for having me, David. I'm really excited to be here and I think anybody that's done any amount of pivoting in their career.
Lived and explored, um, would've said yes to you [00:01:00] because this is just such a timely, appropriate topic for folks like us. Um, so I can, I can go way back if you want me to start there and, um, uh, or we can just stay current. Um, right now I live in Boston. I love Boston. History. Um, I live here with my husband.
We don't have any kids, we don't have any pets. We might have a puppy this year. Um, and it's taken me some time to feel really good about how important my personal life is to me and work isn't everything. Um, so you'll hear that a little bit in my story too. And I encourage people to think about that as well, because life is more than work.
Um, I started off my career at a wealth management company. Um, was there for about five years? My husband's a startup, took us to San Francisco. We were in Boston before that also. Um, and I struggled to find a job. We can talk a little bit about that and. Continue the current that I had started at the wealth management company in Boston, um, did a couple of different things and then [00:02:00] decided I want to become an entrepreneur.
Um, and we can talk about that. And that was about five years ago. And I have been following that current sense, including with the move back to Boston and kind of following our personal, um, hearts and living in a city that we really loved. Um, not that we didn't like San Francisco, but, um, Boston and the history here.
Kind of under our skin. Um, I like to run, I like to be active, um, like to hike in new England. I love to visit all the new England states, Vermont New Hampshire Maine spent a month in Maine during COVID and Portland loved that little city. Um, I love sustainability and food and regenerative agriculture, and thinking about how people make food choices in their lives.
That's like a. Kind of a personal, um, thing I like reading and talking to people about, and I just joined a team to help bring composting to Boston. So I'm really excited about that too.
David Fano: Awesome. I know there's a lot to dig into there. So the question I like to kick this off with [00:03:00] is when do you feel was like the first time in your life, uh, that you started to think about a career.
Uh, you know, I think like the obvious, like everyone asks little kids, what do you want to do when you grow up? But when it was like real, when you're like, okay, this is like, this is actually going to affect some things. Uh, w when was that time and kind of like, what was your.
Sally Rogers: Yeah. So, um, I was actually, I went straight from undergrad to grad school and I was in a PhD program for musicology.
Um, going straight again from undergrad to grad school. Didn't really think twice about becoming a professor. One day I was going to be a professor of music history and. In the first six months, um, of the program, I had this like very deep reckoning with holy crap. What this actually means is I will be in a library for the rest of my life.
It'll be an exception to not be in the library. And up until that [00:04:00] point, I had actually not been in a library every single day. I had been playing music with my friends and with inspiring people and being in an orchestra and chamber music. And I had loved every minute of that. So this reality check for me that in order to make money in my career and in order to live, I was going to have to become a professor and do research for the rest of my life.
And I was miserable alone in a library. Forced me to really think about career and like what that actually means day to day, moment by moment, hour by hour. And so nicely, I was able to leave with a master's degree and get that first job at the wealth management company. So I was able to kind of nicely tie a bow on my academic career and say, A master's degree is as far as I can go in this very academic field, because for me personally, I am a social active team-based human that like loves [00:05:00] people and to think about being alone meant, I just could not commit to that being my career, I would have been miserable.
And I think the, the recognition and just the scene. What you're drawn to and how you spend your time gives you confidence in making the right decision for you. And I think the third thing in all of this. The misery plus the, how you're spending your time leads you to the confidence. So then when someone asks you or tells you, what do you mean your leaving academia?
What do you mean? You're really good at this stuff, Sally, like, you're really good. My professors were horrified, but I threw number one and number two, misery plus choice of time. I gained confidence in myself. No, thank you. I need to do this for me. Um, and maybe like a trailing piece of that is stop doing what other people tell you to do.
Like you're the only [00:06:00] one in charge of your life. You're the only one in charge of your time. You're the only one that has that choice. Um, and I would just encourage people to really listen to their gut and do what they want. Do.
David Fano: So I'm sure we'll come back to this. I'm feeling, um, like a connection with self and self-awareness, which I think is sort of core and then like your confidence to take action on it.
But all right. Wealth management, right? A lot of people struggle with a pivot. They've got a body of knowledge and then they kind of like need to recontextualize it? Like, how would you.
Sally Rogers: So one of the really cool things that happened to me in week one, honestly, I thought I was just going to get a job and get a paycheck, right?
Like they were giving, willing to give me a shot. I had a fantastic, fantastic mentor manager for my five years there. And. Um, in, in the interview process, he was like, you seem smart and sorry, you're not going to get the PhD, but like, come join us. And I'm like, oh gosh,
David Fano: apply
Sally Rogers: online. Like, um, I connected with a recruiter.
I connected with a recruiter, um, internally. And I think at the time, or, um, [00:07:00] in the city of Boston to help me find a job. And I think at the time big companies were just starting to think about this idea of. Hiring smart rather than hiring right or perfect, or has the MBA. So, um, the company was just really forward-thinking and again, my, my future boss was really just like tuned into if I think you can solve the problems that are here and in front of us, I'm going to give you a chance and using the interview process to suss out my ability to solve problems, um, It was fantastic because in that, to answer your question in that very first week, um, I was given like a spreadsheet and I forget what exactly it was, but I needed to like analyze it.
Like I needed to come up with like some sort of like summary view on something and. I remember thinking like, I've never done this before. Like I've barely been in spreadsheets, right? Like my math was years ago and all I've been doing is looking at music and analyzing music and thinking about why the [00:08:00] composer wrote the music they did in the time they're writing in it.
And I remember going home from work that day and telling my now husband, like, holy crap. These are the same skills. Like I have been working my whole life thinking about and analyzing music and loving it. And I just applied that exact same skill set to a fricking spreadsheet. Like whole, like, it was mind blowing to me.
I mean, I'm telling you this because it has that memory and that experience stuck with me. Cause I was like, oh, I can do this. So making that leap. As much as it was, um, sort of the, the future thinking of a team and a company that was willing to hire smart rather than right. Or with a perfect resume enabled me to, to not waste the skills that I had spent my academic career developing.
Like it was just applying it to something. So, [00:09:00] yeah, five years at the wealth management company, I ended up being chief of staff to the CIO. So managed a $200 million budget, helped transform our resource management structure so that we were able to. Chief information officers. So this was my first, yeah, my first foray into tech.
And at the time my husband who's an engineer, like helped me sort of understand and digest some of the stuff at home that I was like seeing in the workplace, but gave me, I think again, fast forwarding to today, this confidence and experience to work with engineering and product teams. Um, and I just kind of cut my teeth on being professional, Sally.
I had fantastic. Peer colleagues that kind of showed me what to do and how to do it. I learned from them. Um, I loved, I loved my job there and I, I think that I had, again, a fantastic boss who gave me a really huge opportunity to, to kind of make a difference there and, um, [00:10:00] sort of pitch beyond my, you know, the expectation that that I necessarily had for myself.
Um, so. Yeah, I, I just, I did everything a chief of staff might do as his right hand for five years and, and, um, you know, presented to the executive team and led team off sites, you know, a department of 400 employees and 700 consultants, like just did a lot. And I thought when that last year that I was there, we sort of knew we'd be moving to San Francisco and started thinking about what I continue with a company that had a San Francisco office.
Like, what would that look like? And, um, it was just sort of time for me to move on. It was time for me to think differently. I think I was becoming a little bit like, where is this going? What am I doing? How am I going to be old growth, Sally? Like, um, and I decided I would try to take what I learned there and apply it to the tech world, like become chief of staff or, um, a [00:11:00] COO at a small startup.
And that was sort of my plan. Um, landed in San Francisco. And in the meantime, my husband who had a tech startup went through YC, sold his company, like had to work at the new company. Like he was having like the incredible, rare startup experience. I had an air armchair view of it. We got married, it was like chaos.
Um, it was all within like six weeks of each other. Um, really fun, but I was like, wait, career Sally, like what is going on? I was struggling. To find a job. I didn't have a network and that's like just big pro tip. You got to have the net, you've got to know people. You've got to have built connections outside of your workplace.
And I just didn't do that in Boston. So now I'm in a new city and I have no connections. Um, so I spent about six months, dark days on the couch lamenting my last career. [00:12:00] I mean, it was like really, really dark days. Kind of breaking up with this idea that I was going to have this like perfect trajectory.
Cause now I've got a gap on my resume. Right. And again, professional career Sally knows that that's like not a good thing. Um, And, you know, connected with recruiters and just tried to apply online and went to networking, went to like women in business meetups. Like you've got to find those like networking groups to just like, get a little foothold somewhere to like keep going.
Um, I would also say to anyone listening, keep going. It's dark. I get it darkest days of my life were when I was unemployed and worried. I knew I was going to be unsuccessful and like miserable in life. It was awful. Um, eventually, and this is like, again, how kind of crazy that the networking piece of this is when I was leaving Wellington, I was at a bar cause I did a bunch of back and forth.
They kept me on for [00:13:00] awhile, between Boston and San Francisco. I was at a bar having dinner one night by myself. And a partner at Deloitte sat down next to me and we just started talking and he was super nice. And I was like, well, tell me about Deloitte. Like what, what, what is it like, what, what happens there?
Um, and he spoke so glowingly of it and it was just like a few ever interested in moving into consulting, like keep me posted. And I had a moment on the couch in San Francisco where I was struggling to find a job to start up. That would give me a chance. Oh, that guy, wait, am I thinking about this wrong?
Like, what if I went after like the employer of choice for myself rather than the, I need to be at a tech startup? Like what, if again, I could think a little bit more openly. He spoke really highly of Deloitte. Like maybe that's an employer that I'd want to work for. So I did a bunch of research and it, that little sort of like redirect in my job search [00:14:00] enabled me to think differently about.
Like where I might be a good fit. Again, not as strongly as I feel today about like, kind of this exploration of self being your professional life also, but certainly opened like a little window for me to think that, like, it didn't have to be just one way. It didn't have to be this like perfect story that I was trying to write and do at the same time of Sally chief of staff that moved to San Francisco and worked at a tech startup.
So I reached out to him and he was like, What, what, what jobs do you see? And I was like, oh, I guess I should have that ready. So yeah. Have that ready? No, no. What, what roles might be appropriate for you and why? And I wrote him and he connected me with an internal recruiter there, and I landed on a team in San Francisco and worked there for a couple of years.
Um, the whole time thinking like, she's going to do this for a while, and then I'm going to like go back to a bank. And like become an executive again, still like not [00:15:00] quite committed, but after a while at Deloitte, I started thinking, oh, I could become a partner here. Like totally. I could totally do this. Do I want him to do this?
Well, I don't know. Um, maybe I'll pause there.
David Fano: So it's something we talked about that I think is an important topic and I think, you know, great resignation, great reshuffle whatever's being called, um, is. Well, I think was this very binary conversation around professional life and profess and personal life, or like career in life.
And I just don't think we like segregate thought that way. And in our minds, I don't know if that's right word, but that we kind of like make that delineation in, in such a hard way. Um, you know, obviously there's activities we do. I'm like make us money so that we can live in the commercial society that we live in.
Uh, and then there's those that. Just bring us happiness, no money. Um, at the end of [00:16:00] the day, it's like value one has this sort of empirical currency to it. The other one has more of an emotional currency to it. Um, but it seems like that's something you've been working through from the beginning. It's like, I love music.
I'm, I'm good at it. Uh, right. Which should be like the recipe for an awesome career, being good at it and loving doing it. You should be able to find someone to pay you for it. Some things easier than others, but. And it seems like something you've thought a lot about like striking this balance of, and then also even just like this distinction of career, Sally versus not everything else, Sally, I guess.
And it seems like you've gotten to a place now where maybe some of those things are, are a teensy bit clearer. So how are you thinking about it now?
Sally Rogers: Yeah, so. That's such a good question. And you're, you're absolutely right. Like this distinction was very clear to me for a very long time. Like there's professional Sally, and then there's everything else, Sally, and frankly, everything else Sally [00:17:00] was like with the ring, right.
She just had like one or two hobbies and like two or three close friends and, you know, took care of herself pretty well, but, um, was largely unfulfilled. And I think if I hadn't had as great of managers and teams early on in my career, I would have been deeply unfulfilled. So I was getting a little bit of that fulfillment professionally, but not a whole lot personally.
And I think becoming an entrepreneur. Like trying to go it alone on a lot of projects and trying to like, bring something into the world to make an impact, to chase a passion, to build something for my friends. Like I have done a little bit of everything, um, has been this like incredibly introspective, personal journey of, [00:18:00] well, that's not working and I don't have a lot of friends or that's not working.
And. I don't have anyone to talk to about it. Well, that's not working and wait. I like teams and I like people and I like relationships. Like, why am I not spending my time on that? And I think this sort of like dance of professional life and personal life has just become this like one sing singular dance in my life, rather than these two that are sort of at odds or challenging each other.
And I think. Building startups or said differently, just working on projects, like bringing something else into the world, whether you're working on in a non-profit in your free time, or you want to help be part of a neighborhood team doing composting, like whatever that is gives you this opportunity to be you and like lead the dance and.[00:19:00]
I think the fact that like her career Sally had zero, zero outside projects. I didn't volunteer time anywhere. I didn't get involved in any extra organizations or networking groups or alumni groups or neighborhood groups, or I didn't do anything. And I don't want to paint this picture that I was like a loner.
Like I was just fairy, very set on. Bringing as much energy as I could to the workplace every day at the sacrifice of other things. But I think once I opened myself up to like engagement in life, it forced the question of like, who am I really like if I'm not professional, Sally, if that's just like a suit I wear every day, like, who am I really?
And I would just encourage anyone. Unhappy at work or thinking about life needs to be bigger or better or different for themselves to [00:20:00] actually go inward first or in conversation with others and start to tackle the question of who you are and like who you want to be in the world. And that question is going to open up thousands of other questions.
Like what gives you energy? Where do you find flow? What gets you out of bed in the morning? What do you want to do before you do any. I think that's a very telling question for
David Fano: people. So you, you ended up working at Deloitte, right? Yep. And that was probably like the last, like, uh, where you were employed before you started your entrepreneurial journey.
Is that right?
Sally Rogers: Yeah. I actually was poached away from Deloitte by another bank and, um, Again, thought I was like on career path. Yeah. I have done a little bit of everything. Um, so I thought of a snack company while I was at Deloitte. I thought about it in the shower. Or I thought about in the shower at a hotel in Chicago while I was traveling a lot [00:21:00] and yeah, and was like, oh, you know, what's missing.
And every airport and mall and tiny little show. Like IEA seven 11 is vegetables. Like, why are we not leading vegetables? I told you like food and sustainability is just always been sort of part of my life. I was like, oh, we need like a snack concept shop in every airport mall, rest up, et cetera. That's like akin to an ice cream shop where instead of gelato or ice cream in buckets under the glass is just nut butters.
And hummuses of every color of the rainbow. And it's beautiful. And it's designed like an ice cream shop and you come in and get two scoops and a handful of carrots or celery or cucumbers or whatever, and you're on your way. And. Built a financial model and a business plan, and just took some time to like, really think about this while I was still at the, then I interviewed at bank and then they approached me away and gave me more money more.
And it was like, oh, okay. Right. This is it. This is where I'm supposed to be. [00:22:00] But man, I had drank the Kool-Aid and at the time, you know, now we're a few years into our life in San Francisco. I finally did have friends and I was doing projects and I was thinking about life outside of work. And it was finding real fulfillment in this sort of entrepreneurial growth mindset way of looking at the world.
And. Was definitely more open to like life not being this perfectly laid out plan in front of me. And when things weren't quite perfectly laid out the way I wanted them to be at the bank, I was like, oh, okay. This is actually in part because I have this deep desire to like bring nibbles the name of the company into the world.
So. Gave notice took my last bonus at the bank. That was a bootstrap money for the company. And, um, took a food business school course at the culinary Institute in Napa and went forward [00:23:00] like within a month was like on my feet, 18 hours a day in a commissary kitchen in Oakland, chopping vegetables, doing recipe testing, working with a couple of women, helping me think through like, How many ounces of vegetables need to be in a packaged good.
I mean, it was so different. And so unlike anything I'd ever done, but again, like skills were transferring all over the place. Um, and if I was to fast forward, just a bit, um, I'm a year in my sales have increased. I'm driving across the bay bridge multiple times a week, dropping off snacks. Did the whole branding label, et cetera, dropping off snacks to tech companies.
My friends that I had made outside of work, I'm now like dropping off free snacks with their companies, doing a bunch of testing. I mean really like biased towards action, loving all of it, not taking a vacation in keep in mind. Like I had gone from a pretty cushy unlimited credit card, you know, flying around the country.
Six eight weeks of vacation a year to like not [00:24:00] taking a day off, like literally in the kitchen, 365 days a year. Um, and I like, I still feel this way about startup life, that every day, every day, even the worst lowest days, cause they're there to are more satisfying to me than the best days working in the corporate.
I just, if they're just like so nourishing to me, because I can fly as fast as I want to today, nothing, nothing is holding me back. And I just find that level of, again, engagement with the world exactly the way Sally wants to show up into it.
David Fano: There's founder employee as like one kind of dichotomy. And then there's corporate startup as an.
Uh, and I think a lot of people think they need to found, uh, or start. Um, and I think you kind of have to [00:25:00] desire other things to like endure that, uh, it's one thing to start it and like the X, but th there are some dark, dark days, uh, on the founding. Um, but I also think a lot of people write off just being in a startup because of the uncertainty of it.
Right. A big corporate comes with, I don't even know how we define corporate, but let's call it a larger, more established organization. Right. There comes some sense of stability. Like that's not going anywhere. Like the idea of like the company disappearing is just kind of like. Part of my thought process where if it's a startup, it's like they haven't made it, you know, they could evaporate, they could go out of business, but the truth is any company could, but we've somewhat like fooled ourselves into thinking that like the bigger ones don't.
Um, but can you talk a bit about that also, because you've got to start up experience from your now husband, this kind of just maybe like thinking about those four quadrants of like corporate to startup, whatever that means, but we'll just run with it to like employee.
Sally Rogers: [00:26:00] Yeah. Um, I think that's really astute and, and you're absolutely right.
And this like, feeling of like flying or like my wings not being clipped and this feeling of like collaboration with people, those are all that's also sort of at play with, whether you're a founder, whether you're in the corporate world or, you know, vice versa. Um, I think that, again, I don't wanna sound like a broken record, but it does come back to sort of recognizing who you are and what you need.
And. Risk inherent in startup land, whether as founder or joining a startup you're right. It's absolutely there. And it could just go away and perhaps, and this is going to get like really deep, but if you, as an individual struggle with commitment, or maybe you had some things take place in your childhood, that has challenged your idea of like what risk is in your life and what risk you're willing to do.
I would just get really clear on that because what that might [00:27:00] mean is no startup will ever be satisfying and fulfilling because you're always going to be on this like really tricky edge emotionally and subconsciously of this could all go away. And if you haven't resolved those sort of inner issues around commitment and stability, your work-life might always be in this really treacherous.
And again, like, because I have done a lot of this inner work and this acknowledgement and self-awareness of the interplay between who I am as an individual and. Looks like in terms of my satisfaction in the workplace. I now know that like my Sally inner work challenges and inner work, not like workplace, but inner being challenges and childhood issues and whatever that looks like.
Cause we all have it. And anyone listening that doesn't think they have it is hasn't quite gotten there yet. We all have it. Um, all that means is there could be this like deep unfulfillment and startup. [00:28:00] Always because it doesn't have the stability that you might be seeking professional.
David Fano: The distinction of like career in life is just not a real one.
Right. Cause I don't think that our brains do that. Like our, you know, our brains, I think, right. If we go down to like the most basic level where an organism trying to survive. Right. And now life has gotten to a place where, you know, we're worried about other things besides like being eaten by a saber tooth tiger.
Um, and we've allowed ourselves. We have the privilege of like, thinking about being happy and, and not tolerating, not being happy or struggling with the idea of wanting to be happy and careers, our work let's call it. Well, it's true. Right where we put our time and we live in a world where that's some percentage of that time needs to go towards making money for the most of us.
And, and I think a lot of people don't give themselves the permission for a very, for a variety of reasons to [00:29:00] not only have that make us money, but also allow ourselves to. Right. And I think we're working through that. I think we're coming, like we're in a bit of a Renaissance with that. Um, because there's like a weird survivor's guilt with it, right?
It's like, well, but you want to make money and be happy in your job who gets that? Well, I'd like to have that and that, and I I'd like to not be shamed for the pursuit of that. Um, and so it feels to me like you've gotten beyond like, oh, work needs to check these boxes. And it's more like life needs to check these boxes and all these things need to work in concert, pun intended.
Um, and so can you talk us a little bit about kind of like how you. Like, what actions did you take to gain that clarity? Cause it feels like, I don't think any of us ever like get it in the day we do. I think we kind of stopped growing, but you're on the journey and I feel like for a lot of people, that's awesome.
So like, you know, it's, it's a great thing to aspire to. So what helped you get there? [00:30:00]
Sally Rogers: Um, I started reading a lot more. Um, in fact, you even mentioning, you know, money, you know, and making money and happiness and like, oh, we can have. I remember the how of happiness book and how that taught me that like only 10% of our happiness is based on money or title or that sort of thing.
And 90% is a lot of other stuff, 50% of which has already set in childhood. So there you go. The next layer is I pull all of my smartest friends and like new people like Dave, you're probably getting an email from me at some point. What are the top two books you read last year and, and you don't, I don't even need to know why I'm just going to trust you and those go on my list.
And then what's what I've just started doing in the last couple of years, too, is loop back to you and be like, here's what I just learned from this book. Or like, here's how this book was also impactful to me because I think the conversation. This goes back to what I was saying around like strangers and views and being open to other views.
A book is a conduit to that strangers view. And if you can tap into that [00:31:00] and then use it as conversation or. S a launchpad to conversation with other people you're then tapping into that strangers view without having to have the con the conversation with the author themselves, which is fantastic. So I would encourage your listeners to like, read more and then use what you've read in conversation with others.
To go back to the person that made the book reclamation. I started very simple. It was just like people that I know, like what books did you read? And that fills my Booklist for the year. And then occasionally I'll pull in like something that I see that looks interesting. And I'm also on the path to read every Pulitzer prize winning book for novel, because that's like, just like a fun, like life goal.
So, um, Yeah. So read a lot more and then have conversations about like what you're reading and think about ways. I mean, everyone just read atomic habits in the last year. And like, we stopped talking about that like six months ago. Right. And like, well, why, why are we, did we talk about it enough? Did we apply it enough?
Have we gone back to it? Um, [00:32:00] so yeah, I think, I think that's a big one. I think also, um, this is probably going to sound. Well, I don't care how it sounds write stuff down. Like I spend 15 minutes a day minimum just getting things out of my head journal thought downloads. Like I don't have prompts anymore. I just reflect and look at what I'm writing and look, think about like, well, what does this mean?
And you know, this ability to connect the dots, this skill that I grew in my musical career. Again, why the composer wrote what they did and how that if you're playing an instrument, how that translates into how you perform the music, but then isn't musicologist like really reflecting on the time and sort of the anthropological pieces of why they're writing music, that connecting of dots can be applied to your own life.
So if you don't have a way to sort of step out, see yourself, see what you wrote, look at a [00:33:00] conversation. I have conversations with other people about your life. You're losing that ability to connect, to connect the dots for yourself and like learn for, and with yourself. The third thing I would say, so those are like two sort of cheap and easy ones.
I've also invested in. Like leadership courses, like the ones that say this is not your typical leadership course, the ones that say this is not about managing people. This is about you and the ones that kind of help you break through some of those fears. And, um, I would encourage people like when those come across your plate, like, think about that because for me talking with other people about these fears in the same way we're doing on this podcast and the same way that you're doing with lots of.
Guests that is such a strong way to like connect us all and like break down some of that fear. And that can happen in small group settings or, um, course coursework with other [00:34:00] people.
David Fano: Well, I think with that, that's a great way to leave people with good advice and actions. Um, thank you so much for sharing your career with us.
I feel like we can do another one of these. There's like so much more to dig into, but, um, how can people learn a little bit more about what you're doing? We'll link to the show notes in the, uh, to, you know, to your various companies, but let's go ahead and give it to folks, uh, over audio.
Sally Rogers: Yeah, just find me on LinkedIn, Sally Rogers.
Um, I ended up going through YC a couple of summers ago with a company called parsnip parsnip.me. So you can follow along. They're working on a couple of their projects now. Um, but you know, shoot me a note. I'm always happy to talk, especially to other folks considering career jumps. And, um, yeah, I w I, in case you can tell, I love talking to other people, so I'm happy to be an open ear and, um, uh, vote.
Confidence and championing you to figuring out like where you're headed next.
David Fano: Awesome. Well, Sally, thanks so so much. And I feel like this is the [00:35:00] first of many conversations between you and me.
Sally Rogers: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
David Fano: And that's it for this episode of Non Linear. If you enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe, share, and rate us wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can learn more about Teal in our website tealhq.com, or follow us on social media @teal_hq. Thanks again, and please join us again to keep hearing about how we make decisions that shape our careers.